Monday, July 25, 2011

House of Gren

Here ar the 2nd unit of Knecht this time under command of Magnus Stensson from the House of Gren.


I will use this banner for Magnus son Ivar Magnusson to.


Two small units of Knechts under command of Swedish Nobles loyal to the Union...

17 comments:

  1. Both are really nice looking units. Nice flags too.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thanks Rodger! Glad you like my Knechts.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I really like these kalmar onion war posts, you paint really good and the real names make them come to life even more!

    What minis are these?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Thanks Jonathan :)

    The minis for the "Gren" unit are kingmaker, crusader, kingmaker, crusader, kingmaker, kingmaker ;) The kingmaker ones are a mix of mounted x-bow and heavy cavalru that have got x-bows instead of lances.

    Best regards Dalauppror

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hi Mikkel

    Wellcome back:) Glad that some one more out there have a heart for this period of the history. Do you do your Danish army in 28mm ? how do yu base your army, wich rules are you planing to use them for?any pictures? many questions...

    Do yoy have any good sites with information about Danish Nobles from this period? at the moment I use most border nobility fron Scania and Småland for my Danish units...

    The Sawyer book are OK, but as you are from Denmark it houlden´t be any problem for you to read some swedish books? I think that Dick Harrisons Book about Karl Knutsson Bonde are the best about this period...

    Best regards Dalauppror

    ReplyDelete
  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Mikkel

    Would be nice with some pictures of your minis.

    www.krigsspil.dk are a realy nice site, have a link to them from my blog:) I will take one more look at there medieval flags.

    Please check out Harrisons book about Karl Knutsson, it´s realy good if you are interested of the subject.

    My flags are painted on linnen, here you can find a short tutorial of how I painted my TYW flags in the same way: http://dalauppror.blogspot.com/2010/12/tyw-flags.html

    I have read Bloody Barons several times and had some small test games... I realy like the pre-battle mecanism and all the WOTR scenarios. But at the moment I dont realy like tha command and combat mecanism, to cumbersom for me, might be get better then /if I manage to play some more "real" games learning the rules... but I´m not shure I have the time to put in.

    I will stick to Hail Caesar as the rules give me the possibility to make my own troop classing and give me the kond of game i want.... Probably going to use Impetus for some pick up games to as I realy like the rules...got to do my own troop classing of the swedeish allmoge thoug...

    ...allso in a re-basing agony at the moment...dont realy like to move around all the bases I have, takt to long of my precious gaming time... I miss my impetus bases... but I want to be able to show the "open order" formation in HC... so I might re-base once again...on 60x60mm bases this time... puting 2 together for a HC and Impetus unit...not sure yet... got to think this over a couple of days..or weeks...

    Best regards Dalauppror

    ReplyDelete
  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi Mikkel

    Looking forward to see some pictures...

    Glad you like my flags:)

    We will see about how I do with the bases, might make me some movement trays...

    For my Knights I have all sort of minis... 20-30 that have got black undercoat and are waiting to be paintes... My first goal are to paint18 Danish/German knights... to them i will use a mix of some old Foundry knights in full plate, some old GW dogs of war knights in full plate, some perry Scurrers from the perry WOTR range and some other odd knights I have... then I will paint a small unit of Swedish knights using Knights and Squires fron the perry HYW range mixed with some old GW Bretonnians...

    Of cours will I make me some more knights then the perry plastic arrives by the end of this year...

    I think a mix of both WOTR and HYW will do it, I assume that the Scandinavian nobles had some more old style armoru and that the German Mercenarys had newer style...

    I don´t think you should loose your hope on Bloody Barons, I think they would give greate games with much period flavor I you just take the time to learn them, the campaingn system are exelent...

    Best regards Dalauppror

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hi Dalauppror

    The resource I used for the Krigsspil flags are these two links. (one of which has been closed down)

    www.roskildehistorie.dk/stamtavler

    &

    www.danbbs.dk/~stst/slaegt_adel/adelsvaaben.htm


    But the most important one for Danish nobility is the last one.

    Steen Thomsen refers to the following books for Danish and Norwegian CoAs.

    "Kildehenvisninger Danmark og Norge:

    De danske og norske våben er (uden henvisning) hentet fra:

    Sven Tito Achen:
    Danske Adelsvåbener. En heraldisk nøgle.
    Politikens Forlag
    København 1973

    som rummer 1716 tegninger af våben. De kommer fra

    H Storck:
    Dansk Våbenbog. Afbildninger til ... Nyt Dansk Adelsleksikon.
    København 1910.

    Heri har professor Hermann Storck (1839-1922) udvalgt et 'standard-våben' for hver slægt, ud fra sine mange aftegninger af våben på gravsten og epitafier. Enkelte af Storcks våben er revideret.

    Disse tegninger er scannet og lagt på nettet af Svenska Genealogiska Sällskapet:
    Danske våbentegninger

    Enkelte våben er fundet i artikler i Heraldisk Tidsskrift (ISSN 0440-6966) som er udkommet siden 1960.

    Danmarks Adels Aarbog (DAA) har siden 1884 udgivet slægtstavler over adelsslægterne - med en større tegning af deres våben, de ældste dog i sort/hvid. De nulevende slægters våben er tegnet i mindre størrelse, fra 2006 i farver. Nogle hundrede af disse våben er indskannet af Finn Holbek og ses her:
    Skannede adelsvåben Klik på: Coat of arms - Våbenskjold

    Adelsmænds og -kvinders segl i middelalderen er afbildet i:

    Henry Petersen:
    Danske adelige Sigiller fra det XIII og XIV Aarhundrede.
    Kjøbenhavn 1897.
    Foto-optrykt 1977.
    og
    Anders Thiset:
    Danske adelige Sigiller fra det XV., XVI. og XVII. Aarhundrede.
    Kjøbenhavn 1905.
    Foto-optrykt 1977. "

    ReplyDelete
  12. BTW I have a question regarding the Gren CoA.

    As you can see here I've moved the white "pile" a bit upwards from a center position.

    www.krigsspil.dk/download/crusade/svea13.jpg

    I based my decision on this picture of the Gren CoA by Raneke.

    www.adelsvapen.com/medeltidsvapen/medeltid/

    Should it be a traditional positioning of the "pile" like you have done?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi Rune

    Nice to hear from you:) Sorry to say I haden´t even noticed the Danish and Swedish flags on www.krigsspil.dk as you "hide" them in the crusade section. Thanks for letting me know;) I will absolutely use them as referense for my linnen flags.

    I to have used the Reneke plates, and i dident notice that the pile should be possisioned a bit up...might have to repaint my flag...or not...I think a live with it for the moment, after all he was a "traitor" that served for the Danes:)

    Thanks for the tip of the link www.danbbs.dk/~stst/slaegt_adel/adelsvaaben.htm
    it was a blast so much god information.

    Best regards Dalauppror

    ReplyDelete
  14. Regarding the Gren CoA. I can see that the Banér family's CoA is shown in the same manner.

    As other sources show the Banér CoA as a traditional "pile", I think your version is the right one.

    Sigh, one more task on the correction list.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Hi Rune

    Then I wait to correct my flag:)

    I looked through your danish and swedish banners last night, very impressive, a real joy to look at, perfect to use as base for my linnen flags.

    One more thing to the correctionlist:
    You have forgott to name the Sten Sture Banner (yellow with 3 sealefs)...

    I allso noted that you write that the Bishops didn´t have special banners/CoA, In my small research I have notised that at least the 2 Swedish Bishops I will use for my games , Archbishp Jöns Bengtsson Oxenstierna and Linköpins Bishop Kettil Karlsson Vasa, seem to have separate CoA at least according to some contemporary church paintings...

    At the moment I have some devided oppinions about the CoA, I will try to find out more before I paint them up...

    BUT so far this is how they look....

    Archbishp Jöns Bengtsson Oxenstierna:
    Devided in 4 equal fields
    upper right and lower left: The oxenstierna CoA (wellow with a red bull horns).
    upper left and lower right: The CoA for Uppsala Bishopric, and here I have 2 options...According to a picture I have seen of a painting in Östra Ryds Churs it is a Red cros on a blue bottom...But the CoA for Uppsala Bishopric realy are a Yellow cross on a red bottom... Ther are one more painting of the Archbishops CoA in Rasbo church but I have not seen it... I asked them for a picture of it...

    Linköpins Bishop Kettil Karlsson Vasa:
    Devided in 4 equal fields
    upper right and lower left: The Vasa CoA (wellow with a black sheaf).
    upper left and lower right: The CoA for Linköping Bishopric, and here I have 2 options...According to a picture I have seen of a painting in Östra Ryds Churs it is 2 crossed keys in silver on a blue bottom...But the CoA for Linköping Bishopric realy are 2 crossed keys in silver on a red bottom...

    You can se a lousy picture of the CoA from östra ryds church here: http://www.heraldik.se/artiklar/ostraryd.html

    Best regards dalauppror

    ReplyDelete
  16. I've giving the name as the Ving-ätten. Based on this aforementioned link. (See lower right corner)

    http://www.adelsvapen.com/medeltidsvapen/medeltid/

    I don't know if it is correct as my knowledge of Swedish medieval nobles is limited. Perhaps the Sture & Ving are relatives?

    As for the bishops in Denmark there were no official CoA for the church. A bishop of noble birth would use his family CoA.

    I know the policy of the Papacy was that bishops should always use the church CoA but that policy was ignored in many places. Some bishops (Frenchmen, Dutch, Italians) were however put in place by the Pope so they may have tried to follow the guidelines.


    Are there examples of Church CoA in Sweden from the 1300's combined with the family CoA?
    Or is the practice an exception.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi Rune

    I suppouse you use the Ving name as the House of Sture, as we here in sweden call them, came from region Södra Ving in Ås härad.

    The 3 symbols are in the CoA "sjöblad" ...the leafs from the wather lilly /näckros.

    The first notice of the House are from 1310 then Anund Sture used this CoA, but the most famous family mener are by no doubt Sten Sture the Elder, that commanded the Swedish forces at the Battle of Brunkeberg 1471 and them become the head of stat for Sweden for about 30 years...

    The Sture name can be some confusing as several other non related familys used the name, read more here (in swedsih): http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sture#Sture_II_Danska_Sture.C3.A4tten

    For the use of Bishop CoA in Sweden. At the moment I only know of these 2(from the 15th centery) Bishops that had a combined CoA made up of therir family CoA and the Church CoA for there Bishopri.

    As described in my last pos, devided in 4 quarters Upper right and Lover left Family CoA and the reversed field the Bishopric CoA.

    I suppouse it was comon use as if you look at old Bishop sigils they almost allways have one shield with the Family/House CoA and one with the Bishopric CoA. and it would be natural to combind these for a banner as the 2 church paintings I refer to.

    Best regards Dalauppror

    ReplyDelete